Wednesday, September 30, 2009

Misunderstood Excerpts of Catholicism

The Introduction to Catholicism from a Baptist
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=102303145928

Here's my review:

Trevor Hammack starts this out great. He's got the right idea, and I admire that. Get it straight from the horse's mouth. He's starts out by using Catholic doctrine... which is good.. but he's takes short excerpts and uses them without understanding where they come from, why, and what they really mean. So he's gives his own meaning to them.

He's makes the argument that since Catholics and Protestants don't agree on everything, that they can't be "brothers" in faith. Just because people disagree on one belief, doesn't mean that they can't share another (more important) belief. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, par 838 says: "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." And those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."
Of course this is true, because we are all baptized in Christ and follow Him as our Lord and Savior. Does this mean that Catholics and Protestants are completely united in beliefs? No, most Christians aren't. Protestants separated, or excommunicated, themselves from the Catholic Church with the rise of Martin Luther. Hence the term "anathema." It's a declaration of excommunication... and who could blame them? Start your own church claiming that Jesus wasn't born of a virgin, and see if the Baptists will still consider you to be in full communion with their church.

Regarding the Magisterium, the Pope, and Papal Infallibility: First of all, the Pope generally (if not always) mades a statement Ex Cathedra only after first consulting the rest of the Magisterium. So you can't say that the Magisterium equals the Pope, because it doesn't. The Pope may be the head of the Magisterium, but he's not the entirety of it.

Papal Infallibility, is the doctrine that the Holy Spirit protects the Pope from teaching error when he speaks Ex Cathedra (from the chair of Peter). Or, to put simply, that the Holy Spirit will only allow him to speak what is true. It is NOT that whatever he says will become true when he says it.

Hammack claims to understand the doctrine, and yet still misrepresents it. He talks about the Spanish Inquisition, which is also widely misunderstood. (FYI: The inquisitions were brought about, and enforced, primarily because of political rather than religious agendas. And both Catholics and Protestants alike were subject to them.)

Hammack, of course, is "not saying that the Pope can't do this because he's infallible. No, he's only infallible in those certain areas we talked about."
... But this comes just after he quoted something that Pope John Paul II said, as if he had said it authoritatively (read: infallibly), when he didn't! That's like taking something I said while while showering, and presenting it as if I had written it in a contract. They do not hold the same weight, and to pretend that they do is, at best, intellectual slothfulness.

He rejects the authority of the Catholic Church, but readily promotes as infallible (not that I disagree) the Scriptures that they canonized. He takes the scriptures that the Catholic Church affirms as inspired and God-breathed, but only uses the parts that support his position, and adopts them as a rebuttal against their publisher. Just cut off someone's arm, twist it around, and slap them with it why don't you?

3 Comments:

Blogger Teach ar an gCarraig said...

Mark 7:7 KJV
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Ok, well listened to that lecture...and definitely believe he was hard to listen to. He does several times make mention of 'ex cathreda' being the only time the Pope is speaking infallible. But his point seems to be how can the guy who ordered the deaths of so many people(referencing the Inquisitions) be trusted to the word which says to 'Turn the other cheek' not to go and slay others. Even if it was for political reasons or otherwise.

The quote from Pope John Paul is dubious simply because if he said it, it should definitely be in accord with scripture. He is an authority simply because of his position, he cannot afford to speak in error at any time, because this gives people ample ammunition to criticize. Whether they understand the principle of 'ex cathedra' or not, he should be in accord at all times, not just when he's in 'ex cathedra.' If you are cursing God in the shower and praising Him in church isn't there still something wrong with that picture?

Reguarding the spanish inquisition it was established by the Monarchy for various reasons with permission from the Pope, who in turned tried to allow an appeal for those accused, which in turn the King enforced a death penalty to anyone who took such a route without 'royal' permission. The King I keep mentioning here was Ferdinand, and his wife Isabella.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition Wikipedia has a decent article, although you'll have to research further as to the speculations for the inquisition. The spanish inquisition wasn't started by the Pope, only sanctioned by the Pope when Ferdinand threatened to cut military protection away. Even then the Pope tried to allow for people to receive a fair hearing. That guy didn't read into this enough.

I know a few catholics, who love the Lord Jesus with their entire being, to say that we can't have fellowship...I have difficulty in the understanding here. While its true I would not give up truth, any catholic that studies the Word is going to know the truth.

Even in the Protestant churches you can't just listen to your pastor but you must study the word after all your Pastor no matter how many years he went to seminary school is still a man. What if he's corrupt and says something you know is wrong, how would you correct his mistake or point it out if you aren't grounded in the word yourself?

Protestants to are, unfortunately, just as divided about little things like 'how to baptize'.

I think that is funny that you mentioned starting a church where you don't believe Jesus was born of a virgin because there are those out there too.

More to come, Kaelen is being especially stubborn today. 1:23pm and she refuses to get dressed, been in her room all day. *sigh* God bless!

2/10/10, 1:24 PM  
Blogger Bill said...

http://www.calvin500.com/

I will respond more in depth later. Just check out the site above for more about Calvin, my hero!
;)

10/26/10, 11:47 PM  
Anonymous James said...

Hey She,

I don't remember how I got on to your blog, but when I did I found your entry very interesting.

What the topic addressed is kind of why I was led away from religion, or I should say Christianity.

When I stated to go looking for what faith and God was for me, I wound up in many different places of worship of all different faiths. It was the Christian faith churches that caused me the most confusion though.

They all told me they are "the true church" and yet they all taught different things. I was kind of weird at first but then became quite sad. None of them had any authority that they could show me or that I knew of to speak for God, and yet they were the ones telling me how I had to live my life by what they interpreted what their bible or holy books said.

If a man is untrustworthy and so sinful that God does not work, or could not work for Him, then how do all of the Christian ministers get to say they are the one man I need to listen to?

Do all Christian religions have a pope kind of authority or just the born again type Christians?

Thanks in advance for your answer :)

James

5/7/11, 6:13 PM  

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