Obedient Women

Are women supposed to follow their husbands or fathers into situations that they know are wrong? What about other authorities? When, and under what circumstances?

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A Few Examples

Abraham and Sarah - God told Abraham to listen to Sarah in one instance: "...And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called." -Genesis 21:11-12

The Midwives in Egypt - They feared God more than their earthly authority and God delt well w/ them. "And he [the king of Egypt] said, "When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women and see them upon the birthstools, if it be a son then ye shall kill him; but if it be a daughter then she shall live." But the midwives feared God, and did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.... Therefore God dealt well with the midwives, and the people multiplied and waxed very mighty. And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that He made them houses." -Exodus 1:16-21

Moses mother in Egypt - Chose not to follow the decree of the Egyptian King and produced the man God used to deliver Israel from Egypt. Exodus 1:22-3:22

Rahab - Went against the belief of her family and took a step of faith in a God that was not hers and saved her father's household as well as became an ancestor of Christ. "And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, and her father's household, and all that she had; and she dwelleth in Israel even unto this day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho." -Joshua 6:25

Jael - Killed a man that her husbands house was at peace with, and Israel prospered. "For this is the day in which the LORD hath delivered Sisera into thine hand. Has not the LORD gone out before thee?"... And the LORD discomfited Sisera and all his chariots and all his host with the edge of the sword before Barak... However Sisera fled away on his feet to the tent of Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite, for there was peace between Jabin the king of Hazor and the house of Heber the Kenite... Then Jael, Heber's wife, took a nail of the tent and took a hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground; for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died... So God subdued on that day Jabin the king of Canaan before the children of Israel. And the hand of the children of Israel prospered..." -Judges 4:14-24

Abigail - After being advised, she recignized that her husband was foolish and found the courage to act on her own initive to do what was right without consulting her husband and as a result 1) Saved her husbands household, 2)Was blessed by the King, 3)Later became the Queen. "Now therefore, know and consider what thou wilt do, for evil is determined against our master and against all his household. For he is such a son of Belial, that a man cannot speak to him. Then Abigail made haste, and took two hundred loaves, and two bottles of wine, and five sheep ready dressed, and five measures of parched corn, and an hundred clusters of raisins, and two hundred cakes of figs, and laid them on asses. And she said unto her servants, Go on before me; behold, I come after you. But she told not her husband Nabal.""And David said to Abigail, Blessed be the LORD God of Israel, which sent thee this day to meet me: And blessed be thy advice, and blessed be thou, which hast kept me this day from coming to shed blood, and from avenging myself with mine own hand. For in very deed, as the LORD God of Israel liveth, which hath kept me back from hurting thee, except thou hadst hasted and come to meet me, surely there had not been left unto Nabal by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall." -1 Samuel 25:17-34

Jezebel - Incited her husband to do evil, and the dogs ate her flesh. 2 Kings 9:36

Queen Vashti - Was banished from the kings presence, and her royal crown given to another for refusing an order from her husband and King.

Esther - Risked her life for her people, by aproaching her husband the King and saved, her people, and herself and was given the house of her enemy. Esther 8:7

Mary and Joseph - God approached Mary first and she consented w/o consulting Joseph, then He approached Joseph. "And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.... And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her." Luke 1:30-31 & 38 "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." -Matthew 1:18-21

Sephira - Followed her husband to death by lying to the Holy Spirit. "But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband." -Acts 5:1-10

http://www.bible.com/answers/asubmit.html

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Some verses to think about:

Genesis 3:16 - God was cursing Eve. Does this mean that we should follow the curse?? "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

Only a few verses later in chapter 4 verse 7, right before Cain sucumbs to temptation, God says this to him: "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

Eve's desire will be for her husband, sin is at Cain's door and it's desire is for him. Eve's husband shall rule over her, Cain shall rule over sin. What is the signifigance?

The "desiring" in both verses seems to be in the same context and is the same word in Hebrew. The word is "T@shuwqah" and defined in the Strongs as:
desire, longing, craving
a) of man for woman
b) of woman for man
c) of beast to devour.

This word is used only one other time in the Old Testamant. In Song of Soloman 7:10 "I am my beloved's, and his desire is toward me." Was the desire that Eve had for Adam that of a woman for a man (love), or that of a beast to devour (control)?

When it says that Adam will "rule" over Eve, it uses the Greek word "Mashal" which by definition means to "to rule, have dominion, reign, to to exercise dominion".

It is used 81 times and is variously translated as: rule, ruler, reign, dominion, governor, ruled over, power and indeed. It is also translated "rule" in Genesis 4:7 in reference to Cain, and Genesis, 37:8 in reference to Joseph having "dominion".

"Mashal" is also used in Judges 8:23, 14:4, 2 Chron 9:26 & 20:6, Psalm 8:6 & 106:41, Proverbs 6:7, 12:24, 16:23 & 17:2.


Then, in 1 Cor 11:3 (head "Kephale") 11:8-9 ('for' being the word "Dia", meaning 1. through
a) of place, with, in...
b) of time, throughout, during...
c) of means, by, by the means of.

2. through
a) the ground or reason by which something is or is not done, by reason of , on account of, because of/for this reason, therefore, on this account

We were NOT made for man as for his use, for his purposes, or for his whim. We were made "through" the man, or "by the means of, and reading on (verse 12) "For as the woman is of [dia] the man, even so is the man also by [dia] the woman; but all things of God."

"Dia" is used 646 times, and translated as: by, through, with, for, for ... sake, therefore, for this cause, and because.

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Eph 5:22
"Submit Yourselves" is the word "Hupotasso" meaning (in non-millitary terms) "a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden." And we are to do this as [hos] (as, like, even as) unto the Lord.

This seems to me to be more of a respectfull cooperation than a strict obedience. Also notice that verse 21 uses the same word associated w/ other believers: "Submitting yourselves [Hupotasso] one to another in the fear of God."

Eph 5:24
Again, the same word "Hupotasso" is translated as 'subject' Have a cooperative attitude with your husbands and fellow beliviers. It all comes back to the attitude.

Col 3:18
Submit yourselves is once again translated from the Greek word "Hupotasso"

1 Tim 2:11
Learn in 'silence', is translated from the Greek word "Hesuchia" meaning:
Quietness
a) description of the life of one who stays at home doing his own work, and does not officiously meddle with the affairs of others.

...."with all 'subjection'," translated from the word "Hupotage" meaning: the act of subjecting. "Hupotage" is from the root word "Hupotasso"

So once again we are talking about an attitude of cooperation.

Col 2:12
First let us note that "I" is Paul, and that my personal interperatation is that this is his personal standard or system to not allow women to teach as he notes himself only and does not say that these are instructions from the Father.

Also in Titus 2:3 it says that older women are to be "Kalodidaskalos," or "teachers of good things" and that they are to "Sophronizo," or 'teach,' the young women.

'Suffer' is from a word meaning to "permit, allow, give leave" and 'teach' is the word "Didasko" meaning:
1. to teach
a) to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses
b) to be a teacher
c) to discharge the office of a teacher, conduct one's self as a teacher.

'Usurp authority over' is translated from the word "Authenteo" meaning:
1. one who with his own hands kills another or himself
2. one who acts on his own authority, autocratic
3. an absolute master
4. to govern, exercise dominion over one

This is the only time the word "Authenteo" is ever used.

Me again, does God ever give ANY of us permission to "Authento" other believers? or non believers for that matter?? I personally do not believe so.

'Silence' is again translated from the word "Hesuchia" meaning "quietness"

Titus 2:4-5
'Obedient' is once again from the word "Hupotasso"

1 Peter 3:1 & 5
'Subjection' is again translated from the Greek word "Hupotasso" in both verses. Attitude again.

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